…Stresses that solutions to Nigeria’s challenges are in 2014 Confab Report
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… Asserts that 25 years of unbroken democracy worth celebrating
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 …Says state police imperativeÂ
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Archbishop Ayo Ladigbolu is the retired Archbishop of the Methodist Church of Nigeria. In this interview, the elder statesman said the solutions to Nigeria’s challenges lie in the Report of the 2014 National Conference. The Yoruba leader also charged President Bola Tinubu to continue to be a listening leader. Again, the Oyo prince is of the view that 25 years of unbroken democracy is worth celebrating.
It has been 25 years of unbroken democracy. Is it worth celebrating?
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The very fact that we have enjoyed 25 years of unbroken democracy is worth celebrating. There is no system in the whole world that is absolutely perfect without any defect. Will you say communism is a perfect system? Will you say socialism is a perfect system? But people who have embraced each form of government will still have some benefits accruing to them from that system. So, the mere fact that we still have a country called Nigeria, we still have our leadership elected on the basis of the kind of democracy we have adopted, and we have a future to look forward to, a future that I’m sure will bring necessary changes, rebirth, and re-evaluation; so why not celebrate?
Is democracy as a system of government working in Nigeria?
To a large extent, it’s working. Some major elements of democracy as globally defined are being practised in this country. Just recently, in my state of Oyo, we had an election into the local government councils;Â Chairmen and councilors were elected to administer the third tier of government. That’s an element of democracy, giving the people the voice and the power to elect their leaders.
But some people faulted the credibility of the local government election.
If you cast your mind to what I said earlier; there is nothing that is absolutely perfect. It’s not only in Nigeria or Africa; there is no system in the world that is absolutely perfect. This is just a response and an example of the question of whether democracy is working or not. Some elements that make democracy work are here. The local government election is one of them. It may not be perfect. Again, we’ve been able to elect leaders into various offices at the national level in line with the patterns and tenets of  ‘democracy’. We had an election last year in line with the Constitution and the Electoral Act. The right for the people to elect their leaders is part of democracy. By and by, we will discover our errors and correct the mistakes. As a country, we’ll get there and be at par with other countries that are practising democracy. So, the unbroken 25 years of democracy is worth celebrating.
 At least, you witnessed many regimes in the country. Some people are of the view that during the regimes of the late General Sanni Abacha and that retired General Ibrahim Babangida the country was far better than what we have now. Do you share that opinion?Â
I’ve been a keen observer in running the country in one way or the other, either quietly or loudly. However, that kind of comparison is confusing. It’s confusing in the sense that we have to look at some indices. What are the indices and baseline for the comparison? Is it on the basis of poverty level, infrastructural development, or the rate of employment? Were there greater employment opportunities during the administration of Babangida and others? Was security guaranteed? Were freedom of movement, freedom of speech, and all those elements of democracy better guaranteed under the administrations you mentioned? It’d take a real technical analysis rather than just a personal opinion. I’m not in a position at the moment to say whether they were better indices then than now. It must be noted that there are various peculiar issues and incidents associated with each administration. Against that background, one can’t begin to compare regimes on the basis of today. Today, for example, the petrol subsidy has been removed but wasn’t removed during the era of Babangida. The cost of living then was cheaper. How can one compare the past with now when we are talking of the cost of living? For me, there are issues, factors, and indices that must be juxtaposed and placed on the table before one can say one regime was better or worse than the other.
Thirty years after the late Chief Mko Abiola was voted for, another Yoruba man, Bola Tinubu, was voted for as the president. How did you feel that this man eventually became the president despite the cynicism at the declaration of his aspiration?
As a Yoruba leader, I feel delighted and fulfilled that this has happened. I believe it’s in the best interest of Nigeria as a country. I don’t know how one would have felt if another person had emerged as the president from the same part of the country where the immediate past president hails from. So, I think it is only fair and just that things worked out the way they worked out. Even though there were too many naysayers, then God was in control and remains in control. So, personally, I feel delighted and fulfilled with the emergence of the president.
If you meet the president as he clocks a year in office, what would be your advice to him?
I would congratulate Mr. President again and urge him to continue to be a listening president. He has been known to be a good listener. From personal experience, if you have issues to discuss with the president and you have an opportunity to sit with him, he will give you time to fully express all that’s on your mind. He won’t even interrupt but will allow you to finish before responding or commenting on whatever you have to say. Coming from that background, I would urge him to keep that spirit alive. He may have a tighter time to do that, but he should remain the listening person, listening leader, and listening president that he has always been before assuming the position. If he could do that, I’m sure he would know more about the feelings, yearnings, and needs of Nigerians. I’m sure God will give him the wisdom to respond in meeting the actual needs of the people.
You were part of a conference held in Ibadan some days ago where it was stated that Nigeria needed a rebirth. Why do you think the country needs a rebirth?
The name for that organisation is the National Rebirth Group. Our concern is the need for a new Nigeria. The Bible says if any man is in Christ, he is a new creation, old things have passed away, and all things have become new. We consider all the challenges that this nation has faced and all the opportunities that lie ahead of us. We need to review why we are called Nigerians. There are many questions agitating the mind. Are we truly Nigerians? Did our forefathers expect Nigeria to be the way it is today? Can we return this nation to the 1951 situation where each of the states was autonomous and faithful, contributing to building the national government at the centre? That’s our main concern. We must be ready to go back and rethink how Nigeria can be a country we can all be proud to belong to. We need that kind of rebirth and thinking about the form of constitution we can operate. It must dawn on us that amendments here and there, left, right, and centre, and patching of the constitution will not take the country anywhere. If you want to build, you must start afresh. We want Nigeria to start afresh. We want a country where the ethnic nationalities will have a sense of belonging, not where the regions have to go to the centre with cups in their hands to ask for money to run their affairs. Today, we are still just talking about state police.
Are you also in support of state police?
Yes. I’ve lived in countries where the state police function effectively to the advantage of the people. It is working in some countries. It had worked before in Nigeria, and it can still work. Though there were misuses and every good thing can be misused, it would only take us to make sure stricter and tighter controls are put in place. So, this country needs a rebirth and a rethinking of who we are. One of the best steps to take is to go back into the zonal system where each region will contribute to the national purse.
Are you canvassing for a rotational presidency as being operated in Switzerland?
The terms of the rotational presidency in Switzerland are different from ours. We have a sort of a rotational presidency. It’s just for our leaders to sit down again and look at the 2014 Confab recommendations. The report is one of the most dispassionate and courageous efforts by Nigerians of all hues and colours to think of Nigeria. Let’s look at that document again page-by- page and recommendation-by-recommendation. We don’t need all these piecemeal reviews by the National Assembly. Most of the solutions to our problems are in the report. I wasn’t a delegate, but I followed everything that went on during the National Conference. I’ve studied it. We don’t have to waste energy by starting something new. I’m sending it to all Nigerians.
There is a debate on the parliamentary and presidential system of government. Which one are you for?
It’s not the system that matters; it’s the leadership and the people who are running the affairs of the state. Even if we invent a new one, it’ll still take people to run it. If the operators want to make it expensive, uncontrollable, and above the people, they will. So, whether it is parliamentary or presidential as long as we have a government that is listening, responding, and accountable to the people, we’ll be okay.
Do you think there should be roles for traditional leaders?
Originally, traditional rulers were the owners of governance and the land before the British poked their noses into our affairs. The royal fathers  enjoyed the loyalty and devotion of their people. So, they were the government. The Europeans came and introduced the ‘Indirect Rule’. They took over the land and power and then left the kings where they are today. Thank God that they can’t remove them from their palaces. At the moment, the monarchs have advisory roles. Let’s just leave them in their honourable status of father of all in ensuring peace and security within their respective domains.
 END